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Shaniqua

Difference in win chance when playing with infinite vs finite decks?

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I saw someone comment earlier about how its not wise to play BJ with infinite decks..   
I am going to challenge this idea and say theo odds are so miniscule, it wont matter that much (maybe 1/1000 hands would be lost due to the infinite deck idea)
so my guess is that 0.1%-0.05% would be the difference in win/lose chance if compared with a BJ hand/game that is played with a finite deck of cards (8 is the most ive heard of)

So i want to see some numbers comparing hands, or game play with stats side by side with infinite deck of cards and with 8 deck of cards...

i hope this makes sense what I am asking and also what my guess in the first paragraph says.

any math wizards out there? don't by shy, let me see you reply!

Edited by Shaniqua | spelling fixes

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Hm.... I think it would be fun to write a Python script to do this, it wouldn't be relevant in real life though.

I'll see if I can make it.

UPDATE:
I need your strategy, do you follow the standard blackjack cheat sheet or just standard?

Also, when referring to an infinite deck, do you mean an infinite amount of K,Q,J,A or are those still limited to a maximum.

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standard or basic strategy,

Id like to see the percentage outcome probabilities for a number of different hands which can be played, you can choose the hand it does not matter really.
the more you can include the better just to get a bigger picture.

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Without Pairs or Soft Hands, It's playing around 1000 hands.
One Deck | Wins: 426 | Losses: 489
8 Decks | Wins: 437 | Losses: 472
50 Decks | Wins: 447 | Losses: 448

I'm going to try and fix the error that causes it to ignore some hands, but that should give you an idea.
I'll update this post when I'm done.

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1 hour ago, ProfessorChill said:

Without Pairs or Soft Hands, It's playing around 1000 hands.
One Deck | Wins: 426 | Losses: 489
8 Decks | Wins: 437 | Losses: 472
50 Decks | Wins: 447 | Losses: 448

I'm going to try and fix the error that causes it to ignore some hands, but that should give you an idea.
I'll update this post when I'm done.

thats more like a simyulation thing, 
im more curious about the exact number of win/loss chance on specific hands, if you know what i mean? 
kind of like when you watch poker tournaments on the tv and shows you what % they have to win if x is drawn on the river or whatever

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Just now, Shaniqua said:

thats more like a simyulation thing, 
im more curious about the exact number of win/loss chance on specific hands, if you know what i mean? 
kind of like when you watch poker tournaments on the tv and shows you what % they have to win if x is drawn on the river or whatever

Ohhhhh, okay, I understand what you're saying now.

I can do that, it'll just take probably till late today to code it.

I'm interested in it too so heck, why not.

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4 minutes ago, ProfessorChill said:

Ohhhhh, okay, I understand what you're saying now.

I can do that, it'll just take probably till late today to code it.

I'm interested in it too so heck, why not.

haha thanks, its just some tedious maths from my understanding but im sure  a com0ptuer can do it for u =P
btw take your time professor, looking forwards to the numbers!

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32 minutes ago, maverick528 said:

There is an online calc for BlackJack.

While it does not allow using infinite decks, maybe you can check the difference between using small number of decks and a very large number ....

http://bewersdorff-online.de/black-jack/

 

That's cool however I'm interested in making one that plays the game for you (not a script for this website, just a script that plays a blackjack game I made in Python).
That way I can multithread it, leave it on for a day, cache the results, and have a definite result for which would be the best winner all rendered in a nice HTML document :)

Edited by ProfessorChill

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I think it only matters if you are counting cards.  Otherwise the difference between 8 decks and infinite decks is very small and I doubt it effects basic strategy.

I'm more interested in if Blackjack is really playing cards against me or if the cards or just a "wrapper" for a 49.75 win chance "roll" or something like that.  I need to investigate the Blackjack section more.

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Just now, wry said:

I think it only matters if you are counting cards.  Otherwise the difference between 8 decks and infinite decks is very small and I doubt it effects basic strategy.

I'm more interested in if Blackjack is really playing cards against me or if the cards or just a "wrapper" for a 49.75 win chance "roll" or something like that.  I need to investigate the Blackjack section more.

If you have any suggestions for the script I'm making please do request it, I have no side projects to do at the moment and this one seems like a fun one!

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On 12/20/2018 at 3:35 AM, maverick528 said:

There is an online calc for BlackJack.

While it does not allow using infinite decks, maybe you can check the difference between using small number of decks and a very large number ....

http://bewersdorff-online.de/black-jack/

 

I'm going to play around with this, thanks for posting it. I've been to some casinos which use 5 decks, 8 decks, and even one deck, so this will definitely come in handy in deciding which table to play at. Even for Stake, which has infinite decks, you can calculate the differences in house edges depending on how many decks are in play :)

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2 hours ago, williamshennie9 said:

I'm going to play around with this, thanks for posting it. I've been to some casinos which use 5 decks, 8 decks, and even one deck, so this will definitely come in handy in deciding which table to play at. Even for Stake, which has infinite decks, you can calculate the differences in house edges depending on how many decks are in play :)

im sorry but im not that good on my maths skills, would it be possible for you to just give the already calculated numbers in terms of the  house edge differences in the number of decks of cards or etc?
                                              
perhaps the professor can do that for us?      
what do you say professor ?     

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1 hour ago, Shaniqua said:

im sorry but im not that good on my maths skills, would it be possible for you to just give the already calculated numbers in terms of the  house edge differences in the number of decks of cards or etc?
                                              
perhaps the professor can do that for us?      
what do you say professor ?     

I can do that, I've complete the previous code, I'm just making it pretty right now.
It really shouldn't take too long to throw that on the code.

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2 minutes ago, ProfessorChill said:

I can do that, I've complete the previous code, I'm just making it pretty right now.
It really shouldn't take too long to throw that on the code.

well I certainly look forward to seeing what you come up with...
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          
ive actually began to do some calculations myself, ill probably be done with them by the end of the weekend.
we can compare notes! kekeke hahah                                         

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I don't know where are my calculators, but I remmember the theory:

A) Blackjack is beatable in real life because it is a Dependent Variable Game. It means that the results depends on the previous results, so an specific already played "five of heart" will never be seen again until a shuffle.

B) Small decks game (1, 2, 4) are more predictable than larger decks games, so the less decks, the better for the player. That is why casinos started to use automatic shufflers, less predictability is worst for the player, but even if you shuffle on each hand, it is still possible to count cards. Infinite decks is the ultimate shuffler, counting is impossible.

 

here is a caluclator, but it is lacking infinite decks:

https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

and here the guy exaplin how to make an excel calc:

https://wizardofodds.com/video/blackjack-house-edge/

 

Edited by Xylber

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