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irawk0

Serious discussion regarding the potential removal of Rainbot

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Hey everyone, I've yet to see one of these made. I'm just as reluctant to make this as everyone else who are gambling normally and love this form of rakeback. However, due to having had enough of passives in chat I feel like I'm forced to talk about the elephant in the room which is: rainbot is killing chat.

I propose we disable rainbot for a short duration. It could be a day, a week, or even a month.

I think I can speak for the majority of real gamblers in that we are no longer reading the chat as we used to (for me that was 1-2 months ago). As of today, I'm on chat mainly to click bet ID's (skimming the 75% where bets were so tiny it's not worth looking), and only skimming through all dialogue, focusing on those from friends (with the exception of passive "friends"). 

Ever since the last update, the general consensus is the new rain requirements no longer place heavy emphasis on wagering, instead shifting balance to chat participation. I've definitely seen a little of that by experimenting with betting non-stop on an alt account without saying a single word and chatting on main with maybe 5-10 wagers/hr (I'm sorry I get tempted to gamble :c), and no surprise, I'm getting rains on main even after a long lapse of no activity. This change did not go unnoticed and to say repetitive passive activity in chat has increased is a severe understatement. With a modest estimation of at least 50% of chat being passive, it has changed to a place I avoid now. 

I think if the rainbot is removed for a considerable length of time, these people who's entire dictionary is comprised of "sad day"/"hi all good luck"/"grats catchers"/"gj rain"/"winners nicely done"/"!seen *insert HR name" will find it pointless to continue staying here. Either that or they will finally start depositing and playing like a regular person instead of waiting for those 1-5 cent rains. I'm sure many of us will complain/threaten to quit Stake but I'm hoping people will see this is a move in the direction for the greater good (Not the same as Grindelwald!).

It doesn't have to be a permanent removal. It could be an announcement saying "anytime we notice an excessive amount of passive activity the rainbot will be removed for the next 24hrs", but it needs to happen. Think of anyone new joining Stake, the first thing they'll see is spamming something random gets them more rain than they'll ever accumulate with faucet, and why deposit when you can get enough from rains? It'll spread like a virus and be unstoppable. Please make this happen.

-----------Discuss------------

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People commented those things long before the implementation of the rainbot. I don't understand why anyone would complain about free money. So what if the requirements have changed? It's actually nice to get a small reward for chatting on the chat for some time. If comments like "sad day" etc. annoy you, then ignore them. I love the rainbot, and anyone that complains about the chance of receiving free money really needs to get their head screwed on correctly.

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Being a member of hoth stake and pd, beside several others dice games site, i share your thoughts and have too noticed recent changes in rainbot that has lead to more useless chatter in bith chats

The idea is seducing i have to say. I believe it should be more than 1 day because the first reaction of almost everyone will be to spam more to say their anger. And it seems to be a little tricky to set because what would trigger rainbot suspension ? On which precise criteria could it be automatized ? That s not so easy.

Another idea could be to change rainbot which is mostly random to something more like what sports betting sites use , like fidelity bonus or cashback...  at least it would allow to link reward to amount wagers.

i say that to feed the debate, several leads can be explored and shall be explored.

Anyway , in a general way i fully support your idea

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not really myself i really don't care catching rains from rainbot lol secondly i noted rainbot mostly give rains to those who playing during raining time i think rainbot give little preference to chatters to those who are playing in HR and vice versa.

Edited by Computer

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Not sure how I feel about that really , I wouldn’t propose to remove it though , it’s a nice feature but maybe it was better for the the wagering players to receive rain rather than the new requirements ❤️

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Rainbot is indeed heaven giver for the beggars but the main Idea behind rain bot is to show that the site also giveaways amount of coins for their players. Instead of removing maybe create a restriction like for example you should have wagered above a certain amount and account should be x months or days old etc. 

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Rainbot has no offence got out of control and it surprises me just how bad this has got. I mean someone always states "oh my god thanks rain" "0.00003156 eth" - is this something to be happy about, that's not even a cent and they are over the moon. I understand the need to thanking players for contributing their own money on rains, but rainbot is not something that should be thanked every 5 minutes. 

Following this, I've checked for a while that lots of these rains have actually hit players who have no statistics, in other words - abuse of the rainbot.

Faucet was a big issue, now the rainbot has clearly justified a new form of abuse which I don't think is being taken seriously. Take a look at Dinabot - this bot which allows exchanges is receiving rains for being used which is fair to say "free money for the bot account" - I don't have a problem, but this should of been going to another player. This is still abuse even if you refuse to think it is. I do not blame Lupandina, but I do blame the Admins that allow the Dinabot to receive rains, I think this account should be opted out and I'm not sure if you @lupandina would agree on that aspect?

 Thanks, gl, nice rain catchers, all passive, in other words for chatting entitles you for a chance to receive rains, this should not be the case.

I'm sure lots of players have sussed out how to make it rain on them, it's not a good thing, a casino should work on the wagering, not the chatting. Therefore, if wagering is what's needed, the passives should not be able to get their hands on it.

Or to make it as blunt as I can, they should remove the rainbot entirely, so I'm for that idea. Gonna be truthful - Stake is the worst for rainbot, I've seen bitvest, primedice, but no offence, Stake is the worst for passives and it's time to start taking a side. This can't go on forever.

 

 

Edited by DarkBlood069

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26 minutes ago, DarkBlood069 said:

Rainbot has no offence got out of control and it surprises me just how bad this has got. I mean someone always states "oh my god thanks rain" "0.00003156 eth" - is this something to be happy about, that's not even a cent and they are over the moon. I understand the need to thanking players for contributing their own money on rains, but rainbot is not something that should be thanked every 5 minutes. 

Following this, I've checked for a while that lots of these rains have actually hit players who have no statistics, in other words - abuse of the rainbot.

Faucet was a big issue, now the rainbot has clearly justified a new form of abuse which I don't think is being taken seriously. Take a look at Dinabot - this bot which allows exchanges is receiving rains for being used which is fair to say "free money for the bot account" - I don't have a problem, but this should of been going to another player. This is still abuse even if you refuse to think it is. I do not blame Lupandina, but I do blame the Admins that allow the Dinabot to receive rains, I think this account should be opted out and I'm not sure if you @lupandina would agree on that aspect?

 Thanks, gl, nice rain catchers, all passive, in other words for chatting entitles you for a chance to receive rains, this should not be the case.

I'm sure lots of players have sussed out how to make it rain on them, it's not a good thing, a casino should work on the wagering, not the chatting. Therefore, if wagering is what's needed, the passives should not be able to get their hands on it.

Or to make it as blunt as I can, they should remove the rainbot entirely, so I'm for that idea. Gonna be truthful - Stake is the worst for rainbot, I've seen bitvest, primedice, but no offence, Stake is the worst for passives and it's time to start taking a side. This can't go on forever.

 

 

I have few points as answer to this :)

First, Dinabot isn't abusing rains in any way. Dinabot isn't chatting (exept few msg's "accept friend request, please" some time ago, when we didn't have live support implemented). Dinabot isn't betting (exept minimum wager, which was required to unlock possibility to answer pm's). I don't know, how and why Dinabot appearing in rains lists, it's deal and rules of Stake, not me. If Stake will decide, that it's wrong - I will accept it.

Second, Dinabot isn't actually bot. It's a simple user account, which is used by our site's system.

Third, everyone noticing, that Dinabot received rain, immediately! But just few noticing, when Dinabot raining :D I can ensure you, that Dinabot rained at least 8-10 times more, than received. I'm not profiting from that.

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From reading these comments, it seems that the community would prefer to have the rainbot suspended all because the dinabot benefits from it, and people "thank" the rain bot. Have you all lost your minds? Sure, it may not be perfect, but it's free money for crying out loud. So if you would rather have no free money a few times a day, then your wish may come true. But I warn all of you who are against the rainbot - You will miss receiving the rains, and beggars will stay, and just increase, as they have been around since Stake started.

Removing the rainbot will never stop beggars - Ignoring them will solve the problem for you. For me, I don't mind people thanking the rainbot, so I have no need to ignore them. So feel free to use the ignore feature built into Stake if these comments disturb you.

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This is actually a pretty well worn topic.

For background here is the thread announcing the rainbot:

Note that they intentionally avoided explaining how it worked, though I agree with your assessment that it was initially more of a rake back bot.  However, since they never SAID that, the spam and efforts to qualify for rain by thanking the bot and making other low value comments such as ...., gl, lol, wow, thanks friend, etc started immediately.

This led almost immediately to...

So less than 12 days later I was agreeing that things were not good.  It appears that chatting is more important now to qualify for the bot, and worse, now the rainbot manipulation is getting rewarded.

It all comes back to what is Stake trying to accomplish?  If it's an active chat, a quantity over quality argument, then rewarding rainbot manipulators is fine.  That seems a shame though as there are enough quality Stake users that they could have both high quality and good quantity.

Rather than remove it, I'd just like to see a rule against obvious efforts to manipulate it - e.g. no thanking the bot, no commenting on the bot, etc.  Another leading site I play at has a rainbot and it does not have the problems as bad as Stake does.  Not that its chat is a paradise, cuz it's not.

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1 hour ago, wry said:

It all comes back to what is Stake trying to accomplish?

This is the question that goes through my head, has anyone actually asked that specific question and whether support can offer some advice on that? Or perhaps any Admins?

I'm sure support are wasting a lot of their own valuable time muting players that abuse rainbots etc...

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1 hour ago, DarkBlood069 said:

This is the question that goes through my head, has anyone actually asked that specific question and whether support can offer some advice on that? Or perhaps any Admins?

I'm sure support are wasting a lot of their own valuable time muting players that abuse rainbots etc...

Of course I asked it!  :D  If you check The Rainbot is Starting to Impair Chat thread I started back in September you'll see Dan and I go back and forth a bit on it.

It is after all the key question!

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3 hours ago, wry said:

Rather than remove it, I'd just like to see a rule against obvious efforts to manipulate it - e.g. no thanking the bot, no commenting on the bot, etc.

Yes Wryy I'm fully aware the problem has been addressed before in your linked topic, however it's gotten excessively worse since then and I thought I'd make an updated thread.

As to removing it, I'm not asking for permanent removal, only a temporary one. I am hoping (fingers crossed) that if rain disappears altogether for a few days, there would be 0 incentive for the passives/alts to even bother showing up in chat, and they'd move on to a new site to harass, where we can then freely re-enable the rainbot :) 

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I vote for removal. It would get rid of the free loading rain beggars that creates infinite alts that spams chat every single minute of the day. Even though rainbot does help out (if you even get hit by it), its helping the wrong ones. Players that spams non sense in chat are often the ones receiving rain from the bot. Those who actually deposits and wager tons everyday gets ignored, thats just promoting for the spammers to keep on spamming bs in chat and in turn creates a toxic environment as regular players are getting tired of having one spammer muted, just to have another alt come back spamming the same ol shit. 

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3 hours ago, wry said:

It is after all the key question!

It really is and we know full well that there is no specific answer to this.

 

3 hours ago, irawk0 said:

I thought I'd make an updated thread.

I feel you my friend and understand the need to raise this concern on an updated thread, because I'm very much agreeing that things have got worse whether support have any idea of whats really happening. I have seen moderators muting the accounts that beg for rains, furthermore the "gl all" every 5 minutes. It's sad but it's true that these rain catchers are only here to steal initial funds from those that have gambled serious bucks in Stake. These people always come back on alts. It's upsetting to see this but it really is happening.

The staff waste so much time tracking these alts to mute them but the efforts is too much, the staff always give you a direct response "please give us some time to investigate" - meaning that they don't obviously have the time but they will get round to looking at them.

To sum up my conclusion, removing this rain bot will disable the opportunity of having to need to use alts for stealing funds from Stake. Because it is happening at this very minute, every hour of every day.

 

Those that are entitled to rains are not receiving them with regret.

I recently went to support regarding Dinabot in which I was sadly not given a direct response on why the account was receiving rains, all I was told was that the account tips players. That is not my question at all. I was referring to why this account in which has not wagered anything, only enough to chat entitled to rains. Every account that uses Stake should wager for rains. If direct tipping all the time entitles you for rains, that is a ridiculous system.

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Well, i guess removing rain-bot would be a great idea and a huge advantage to players that needs a quiet chat while gambling. On the other hand stake would lose many people that they may deposit in the future due to rain wins. For me, removing rain-bot would cause stake some loss, so i guess there should be way more restrictions for people that they abusing or spamming stuff about rain-bot.

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On 1/12/2019 at 3:47 PM, FotisNt said:

Well, i guess removing rain-bot would be a great idea and a huge advantage to players that needs a quiet chat while gambling. On the other hand stake would lose many people that they may deposit in the future due to rain wins. For me, removing rain-bot would cause stake some loss, so i guess there should be way more restrictions for people that they abusing or spamming stuff about rain-bot.

Lol. Would you rathrer lose rain beggars, or lose regular players who deposits?.. I do see your point in potential depositors,  but that is what the faucet is for. To try the games out and see if this would be a good place to deposit. Why would anyone deposit when they can just spam and hope for rain because they know its enough to get lucky and win??.... Rain in my opinion, if its going to stay, it should reward ONLY players who have deposited, wagered and contributes in chat. So that way, Those potential depositors, would have to deposit in order to receive such "benifit", There are players who spends their time spamming chat, wagering minimal amount because theyre not here to really gamble or play.. They are here to spam to collect free rains and tips from generous players, who also from time to time makes huge amounts of rain(s)... Since the rainbot dont require much, other than spamming, do you honestly think these players will deposit? .... Theres even a few times when i read in chat a player just toxic in every way trolls other players in chat and  even admits he/she is only here to collect free rain.......... This is especially frustrating for players whos been having no luck, already busted many deposits, watching something that could potentionally help them turn things around, consistently ignoring you. While free loaders spams away while they get showered by rainbot.. So i remain in favor of removal if it remains this way. But ofcourse, it is really not up to us, but we can only hope that our input and suggestions are being heard and considered as we remain loyal to the site..

Edited by KiXxnTRiXx

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Useless chatter (i thought) was one of the hallmark identifiers of a chat room? :)

That said, I am not a big fan of the rainbot, because it nearly always leaves me out, no matter how much i gamble or chat. 

As far as removing rainbot - when it does land on me, i'm thrilled.  Always an eventual bust....but still a fun little extra. 

Useless chatter will always be there, rainbot or no. 

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I just always thought this was a gambling site not a chatroom, I will never understand why people chatting is rewarded when the main focus of the site is to gamble and win or lose. How would Stake make money if only everyone just chatted and no one bet, so why are chatters rewarded, even if you have to do a few 1 sat bets.  Doesn't anyone at least think that dedicated gamblers keeping the site running should be at least the ones collecting. I am very appreciate of Stake and all they do and give but I just don't think they are intending to run a chatroom.  I don't even care if I get rain much because I really haven't anyway since it got changed back to chatters.  I don't even care about the useless chatter because the same people do it over and over and they won't stop.  I just don't get why the people wagering are in the end paying people to chat.

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On 1/12/2019 at 7:19 AM, wry said:

This is actually a pretty well worn topic.

For background here is the thread announcing the rainbot:

Note that they intentionally avoided explaining how it worked, though I agree with your assessment that it was initially more of a rake back bot.  However, since they never SAID that, the spam and efforts to qualify for rain by thanking the bot and making other low value comments such as ...., gl, lol, wow, thanks friend, etc started immediately.

This led almost immediately to...

So less than 12 days later I was agreeing that things were not good.  It appears that chatting is more important now to qualify for the bot, and worse, now the rainbot manipulation is getting rewarded.

It all comes back to what is Stake trying to accomplish?  If it's an active chat, a quantity over quality argument, then rewarding rainbot manipulators is fine.  That seems a shame though as there are enough quality Stake users that they could have both high quality and good quantity.

Rather than remove it, I'd just like to see a rule against obvious efforts to manipulate it - e.g. no thanking the bot, no commenting on the bot, etc.  Another leading site I play at has a rainbot and it does not have the problems as bad as Stake does.  Not that its chat is a paradise, cuz it's not.

Yes wry your right this topic is very worn and you said pretty much everything that i think we are all thinking about how there does need to be some rules on manipulation of the rainbot. 

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On 1/12/2019 at 2:57 PM, irawk0 said:

I propose we disable rainbot for a short duration. It could be a day, a week, or even a month.

This is a good idea. 1 month or 2 months in my opinion will be a good amount of time to drive most passives away from this site. Now I know this means dip in users of this site, but I'm pretty sure most passives never deposit or gamble anyway. They are just traffic for the website that increase the load and make it worse for the dedicated players.

 

On 1/12/2019 at 2:57 PM, irawk0 said:

I think I can speak for the majority of real gamblers in that we are no longer reading the chat as we used to (for me that was 1-2 months ago). As of today, I'm on chat mainly to click bet ID's (skimming the 75% where bets were so tiny it's not worth looking), and only skimming through all dialogue, focusing on those from friends (with the exception of passive "friends").

This is actually very true. Hadn't realised it as much, but now that I think about it, I've really reduced my chat reading time. I don't even come on Stake that often now, because passives are everywhere. Once day, if you had a good day on stake, and rained, people will remember you. "Friends" will start messaging you. But if you have a bad day, or a day without wins, then they won't even reply to the messages you send them. It is in fact very demotivating. I've only ever found a few people who reply to me, whether I'm on the low or the high.

It is to the extent that if a friend has a fire, and they talk in chat, I don't address them. I don't talk to them, because then people say it's passive begging, not knowing how close friends you are. Passive Begging needs to be defined somewhere, accurately, and passive beggars need to be banned permanently. Chat will soon become a lost cause.

 

On 1/12/2019 at 2:57 PM, irawk0 said:

I'm getting rains on main even after a long lapse of no activity. This change did not go unnoticed and to say repetitive passive activity in chat has increased is a severe understatement. With a modest estimation of at least 50% of chat being passive, it has changed to a place I avoid now.

Well made point. The fact is, that most dedicated players don't chat, but focus on wagering. And its true that everyone likes receiving rains. But, if the dedicated players only wager and don't chat, then they don't receive rains and only the beggars that constantly type "Good luck *name*" or "Sad day" or "Busted" every other minute and praise people's 100 sat profit on a 500 sat bet, get all the rains. They of course, then get more motivated to type in chat. It's a vortex.

The rain algorithm should definitely favor wagering and not chatting, its better for all.

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On 1/12/2019 at 5:27 PM, irawk0 said:

Hey everyone, I've yet to see one of these made. I'm just as reluctant to make this as everyone else who are gambling normally and love this form of rakeback. However, due to having had enough of passives in chat I feel like I'm forced to talk about the elephant in the room which is: rainbot is killing chat.

I propose we disable rainbot for a short duration. It could be a day, a week, or even a month.

I think I can speak for the majority of real gamblers in that we are no longer reading the chat as we used to (for me that was 1-2 months ago). As of today, I'm on chat mainly to click bet ID's (skimming the 75% where bets were so tiny it's not worth looking), and only skimming through all dialogue, focusing on those from friends (with the exception of passive "friends"). 

Ever since the last update, the general consensus is the new rain requirements no longer place heavy emphasis on wagering, instead shifting balance to chat participation. I've definitely seen a little of that by experimenting with betting non-stop on an alt account without saying a single word and chatting on main with maybe 5-10 wagers/hr (I'm sorry I get tempted to gamble :c), and no surprise, I'm getting rains on main even after a long lapse of no activity. This change did not go unnoticed and to say repetitive passive activity in chat has increased is a severe understatement. With a modest estimation of at least 50% of chat being passive, it has changed to a place I avoid now. 

I think if the rainbot is removed for a considerable length of time, these people who's entire dictionary is comprised of "sad day"/"hi all good luck"/"grats catchers"/"gj rain"/"winners nicely done"/"!seen *insert HR name" will find it pointless to continue staying here. Either that or they will finally start depositing and playing like a regular person instead of waiting for those 1-5 cent rains. I'm sure many of us will complain/threaten to quit Stake but I'm hoping people will see this is a move in the direction for the greater good (Not the same as Grindelwald!).

It doesn't have to be a permanent removal. It could be an announcement saying "anytime we notice an excessive amount of passive activity the rainbot will be removed for the next 24hrs", but it needs to happen. Think of anyone new joining Stake, the first thing they'll see is spamming something random gets them more rain than they'll ever accumulate with faucet, and why deposit when you can get enough from rains? It'll spread like a virus and be unstoppable. Please make this happen.

-----------Discuss------------

The only thing that would make Stake remove the rain bot is due to this abusive users.

Those who spam the chat just to get a chance of rain. These people messes the chat room up. And us, won't really control not to mention them, and all the chaos starts from there. So as early as now, let's make sure we do not abuse anything that the website offers to its players. :)

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On 1/12/2019 at 5:47 PM, DarkBlood069 said:

Rainbot has no offence got out of control and it surprises me just how bad this has got. I mean someone always states "oh my god thanks rain" "0.00003156 eth" - is this something to be happy about, that's not even a cent and they are over the moon. I understand the need to thanking players for contributing their own money on rains, but rainbot is not something that should be thanked every 5 minutes. 

Following this, I've checked for a while that lots of these rains have actually hit players who have no statistics, in other words - abuse of the rainbot.

Faucet was a big issue, now the rainbot has clearly justified a new form of abuse which I don't think is being taken seriously. Take a look at Dinabot - this bot which allows exchanges is receiving rains for being used which is fair to say "free money for the bot account" - I don't have a problem, but this should of been going to another player. This is still abuse even if you refuse to think it is. I do not blame Lupandina, but I do blame the Admins that allow the Dinabot to receive rains, I think this account should be opted out and I'm not sure if you @lupandina would agree on that aspect?

 Thanks, gl, nice rain catchers, all passive, in other words for chatting entitles you for a chance to receive rains, this should not be the case.

I'm sure lots of players have sussed out how to make it rain on them, it's not a good thing, a casino should work on the wagering, not the chatting. Therefore, if wagering is what's needed, the passives should not be able to get their hands on it.

Or to make it as blunt as I can, they should remove the rainbot entirely, so I'm for that idea. Gonna be truthful - Stake is the worst for rainbot, I've seen bitvest, primedice, but no offence, Stake is the worst for passives and it's time to start taking a side. This can't go on forever.

 

 

In my view , I dont have anything against DinaBot to receive rains since its a user made bot account and the only exchange bot in stake and they don't treat it in a way like its of the Stake's site and doesn't exempt from receiving rain but if they did make it like its a stakes only bot of exchange then they could exempt but its all right in my opinion also if the user wants to the Bot can re rain the received amount its a user based account so it can receive rains. 

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